The eMoto Show

Michael Hicks on World Supercross, Stark Racing & Pro Level Electric Motocross

• ECR • Season 1 • Episode 12

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In episode 12 of The eMoto Show, we sit down with Stark factory racer Michael Hicks to talk about his journey from amateur motocross and Arenacross racing to competing on the world stage in World Supercross aboard the Stark VARG.

Michael shares how he went from buying one of the first Surrons and owning an Alta Redshift to becoming a professional Stark rider, racing French Supercross, World Supercross, and events across 12 different countries. We dive into what it's really like racing an electric motocross bike against top-level gas competition, where the Stark has advantages, where it still struggles, and what the future of electric racing could look like.

SPEAKER_04

Welcome to the EMoto show. Today we have Stark Pro Racer Michael Hicks to talk about World Supercross and beyond. All right, Michael Hicks, thanks for coming on the show, man. Excited to have you on. You're definitely becoming a legend in the e-moto space, and you've got a super interesting background, uh, just racing dirt bikes, uh, you know, in the premiere level. Um, but lately you've been racing Starks and you're doing some cool stuff free riding. And so, how did all this come to be, man? How did you end up in this in this spot right now that you're in?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, thanks for having me. I've been watching your videos for a while, uh uh riding sarons for the past three years. I I've been watching your videos and just uh watching how to tune them and all that. So it's cool to have you on. And then, but yeah, just uh I've been racing the Stark. Uh I raced French Supercross and World Supercross last year. Um basically how that came about was I think two two and a half years ago, I bought my own personal Stark. So I bought a demo bike from a dealership that was able to sell it, started riding that, and then the whole um AMA arena cross series thing came about with the whole Stark class. Um, then got so bought a Stark in uh when I lived in Missouri, started riding it, and I hadn't I had an Ulta before that. So I but the Ulta was way kind of it was pretty good, but just not as good as the Stark. So then started riding the Stark, moved to California, and then luckily the AMA Renacross series was mostly based in the West Coast. Uh started basically met the Stark guys out here. Then they're like, hey, we're doing a Stark, we're doing a Stark class at Rena Cross. Do you want to ride a bike? So yeah, so I was racing the Stark and the gas bike all on the same night, doing two nights in a row. Crazy, man. And then um, yeah, it was I would literally race a 450 main event, go straight to the line, get on the Stark, race a Stark main event straight to the line for the 450 main event because they didn't think anyone else anyone was gonna go back and forth, and I was the only one that would. So they were literally back to back. It was crazy. So come like a 450 main, I was I was smoked. But uh the like the second one pays to be young, I guess.

SPEAKER_04

If I did try to do that, I'd be dead.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so uh did good enough in that, and then um ended up winning the championship for that class, and then that's basically just how I got the got the offer from Stark. Um, there's uh Jorge Zaragoza who races for Stark, and like he's in he lives in Spain. Yeah, he got hurt. Um, so I was able to go to the UK and race one of the UK Arena Cross series, end up getting second behind Dean Wilson, and then that basically got me a ride for the next year, and then the whole I was doing French Supercross. So there was a I went over to Spain, did some of those, and then there were I did there was like so I do the actual French Supercross series called SX Tour.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, but then I I went early to do some testing, and there was some like non-races in the series that I was doing over there in France, and then uh they got the they got the call that they were gonna be able to race World Supercross. So come month later, we were already we were in a different country racing world supercross. So it's uh it's and then I traveled like last year I did I race in 12 different countries, so it's like it's just it's insane how how it works out. Like I bought a bike, liked it, started riding it, got the opportunity, and then now I traveled the world. So um really grateful to be on Stark and um I love it. I mean, I I like all types of bikes. I race gas bikes, I build gas bikes, I build electric pit bikes. I just like all the dirt bikes. So, but the Stark is amazing.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, man, we're kind of the same way here. Like, we love all forms of motorcycles. Like, it's like I don't care what propels it, they're all fun for different reasons, and it that's what makes it really cool to see a guy of your caliber embracing it too, because like I feel like there's this kind of narrative sometimes where people are like you have to be one or the other, you can't ride a two-stroke and ride electric, but it's like, man, they're great for different reasons, and it's it's cool to hop on all the different bikes and ride them, and it's not like you have to be a purist in one form, so it seems like you pretty much embody that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like I mean, uh, everyone who would hate on electric bikes just hasn't rode one. That's what I've realized. Yeah, that they they they don't even know. And then I can I've seen people like they're kind of hating on it, some older guys, and I'd be like, here, take it. And they're like, they don't want to ride it because they don't want to like it, and then they'll end up giving in, going to ride it, and then they'll come back to like, all right, I I understand. I'm like, Yeah, I told you, dude.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's hard, dude. The Stark, especially, it's like, how do you get on that bike? Like, if you ride dirt bikes, how do you get on that thing and not be like, Okay, it's kind of cool? You know, it's like yeah, the bike is incredible, it's such a fun bike. So, so like going back, how if the the Ulta was the first electric dirt bike that you owned?

SPEAKER_00

Uh I bought a saron, but I mean full-size Ulta was the the first one I've owned.

SPEAKER_04

And was like the Siuron the gateway drug for you, or like how did it all like why did you start thinking down that path to begin with?

SPEAKER_00

So um like I bought a Siuron like three months after they were were released, and I had been seeing it on YouTube, little tiny YouTube. There was like nobody on YouTube with them yet. Yeah, and then I was like, I had all kinds of gas pit bikes, and that's what me and my buddies all rode. I was like, oh, should I get this electric bike? Like, no one, I don't know. And then finally found one in uh Arkansas, and I just happened to be racing uh in Springfield, Missouri. So I I did good. I raced on Friday night, did good, made some money and went down on Saturday morning, picked up the Siuran before coming back to race on Saturday morning, uh Saturday night. But I rode it in the parking lot, and there was just like a little grass hill that I could jump like a hip. And just I was like, oh, this thing's amazing. And then so but yeah, that basically started it, and then just obviously just progressed, like started breaking parts, building my sarron until now it's fully built. But um, but and then then found an Ulta for pretty cheap and bought that because I I had put an order in on the start like the day they released them. And um I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go get this Ulta, it's half the price, and maybe I like it better, and I just canceled my start um like order because they were like fifteen thousand dollars at the time.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And uh the Ulta was half. So I got it, it was really good, but it just has like a lot of engine braking that I couldn't, I didn't I didn't know anyone who could plug into it and change it. So like it took me, I like it's funny. I can ride pretty much any bike because I all growing up, I've had all kinds of different bikes and different setups and all that. And uh it was my dad was laughing at me riding it because I could not make some jumps because I let off on the top of the jump like you would with a gas bike, yeah, and it would just stop, yeah, and I just case the crap out of everything. So it took me a while to figure that out that I had to actually hold it on, but that was just with the Ulta with a lot of engine braking. So um then I got the Stark, and you can mess with all that, so it's it's a lot better bike, but um yeah, that that Ulta was like I mean, I think they're 50 horsepower, and even that I was like, this thing is so fun, yeah. And uh, so I was excited to finally get a Stark and then end up getting one probably a year after I bought the Ulta and then then sold the Ulta, obviously. So yeah, but uh yeah, just kept riding that.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah, the Ulta at the time, man, it's like such an impressive bike. And we had Eric Pernard on uh a couple weeks ago, and we're just talking about because he was an advisor for Ulta and Stark, but he still has both. And recently riding them back to back, it's like he made it sound like he's like, okay, the Ulta is like riding a 2012 motocross bike, and then the Stark is like 2021 plus, and it feels like that, it just feels like the same DNA, but just older technology. And man, you get on that Stark, and it's like this is yeah, like you said, fine-tuning it and just being able to, I don't know, the the bike is just such a weapon, so it's cool to see that progression, but uh I never really thought about the fact that you can't really tune the the Ulta, like it's like at the time you're like, this thing's just awesome, but yeah, the engine braking is super strong on that bike.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there was a guy I uh I someone was telling me that in Tennessee. Um, I think he was the it was I forget his name, but he was the first one to have a Stark in the USA. I I I know that, but he was able to plug in the Ulta, and I was gonna take my uh see if I messed I was gonna message him and see if I could take my Ulta down to Tennessee because I lived in Missouri at the time and have him tune it, but then I just I just I was like, I'll just wait till I get the Stark. But um, but yeah, the Stark, it's it's crazy, like it's so slim. And especially what I do riding supercross, that's that's kind of what you want. You you want the bike to be able to throw it around everywhere. So and then uh, but I'll get back on a gas bike, and it's I have a Yamaha as a gas bike, and those are the slimmest gas bike. Yeah, even that is feels like I get back on it, it feels like a tank. Yeah, it's it's it's insane. So, like just simple things like that. Um, just how skinny the bike is, people don't understand how much easier it is to have your knees tucked in and closer and and just ride it like it's a mountain bike, really.

SPEAKER_04

And on your bike, are you doing the handbrake or foot brake?

SPEAKER_00

So I do the foot brake, um, just simply because I still still do race a gas bike. Um so for World Supercross, uh, I know Kalana Humphrey and that Jorge Zaragoza, they run the handbrake.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But they were having problems because because they're dragging it so much because they have their hand on it, it would overheat and it would they'd lose their brake. Yikes. So and then uh well, and and then it's kind of funny because FIM rules, you have to still have a foot brake. Oh, really? So they had a they had a double caliper on the back.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So uh I was making fun of them because they'd come off the track and like, my brakes are gone. I'm like, use your foot brakes, you have two brakes, you got two of them in a whole different setup. Yeah, you guys got double the stopping power. But yeah, um, before one of the French supercross races, um, during the week, we were testing and they were like, Hey, you want to try the hand brake? So I was like, Yeah, I'd I'd like to try it. So I liked it for practice. And uh, so they had the stock brake on our practice bike that comes with the bike, and then for the race, they have like the factory Brembo, all those they're really good. Um, but even so I rode all week and I liked the handbrake because I went to the French race, and I guess I didn't realize how fast I come into return and break last second with a footbreak. So then I'd come in with the handbrake and I bout go over the berm.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So uh between the qualifying and the heat race, I had them switch it back to a footbreak, and then I didn't realize how much I was dragging it out of a turn, kind of like a clutch. Oh wow, because we go out for the heat race, I whole shot, and then I'm there's like two rhythm sections where you triple in out of a turn, and I cased the crap out of it because I gave it so much gas out of the turn, I spun the tire because the dirt was pretty hard. Yeah, and I I basically frame cased both of them the first lap. Uh, I didn't, but I didn't realize how much I was dragging that brake during practice with the with the handbrake. But and that was even with the with the factory bumbo one. So it's just I guess it's all what you get used to. I've I've been riding uh free like free riding for a little bit. I was riding Wyatt Fine month bike, yeah, and he has a handbrake. I really like the handbrake for for like jumping and whips and all that. Yeah, obviously it's you give it you have some control in the air, whereas like the footbrake for whips, you you don't touch the the brake for whips, obviously. So it was nice to have the handbrake for that, but uh I'm I think I'll probably just stay with the foot brake, it just has that much like uh more power to it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I I feel you, man. We've got a few Starks right now, and some of them are setup handbrake, and some of them are footbreak, and I'm like actively going through the process of which one I prefer, but it's I feel like right now, like I still love the foot brake. It's just like it's not that I'm any stranger to riding a bike with brakes on the bars, like you know, the Saurons and whatnot, but the bike of that size, for some reason, I just feels at home to be able to like step on that pedal and slow down. And I I don't know. I I'm having a hard time getting around it still, and I know the benefits, right? Like it's like there's obvious advantages in certain areas, but it's still, I just like the footbreak on the Varg for some reason.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, it just works better. It's just it's a little safer for in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Well, I want to go into bike setup a little bit, but I kind of want to like dial back and just talk about your um your career, you know, as an amateur, you're a Loretta's kid. Um, you know, this trajectory that you're on right now. I'm curious if this is what you had envisioned, or were you going for the gas thing and like maybe this electric uh opportunity had you kind of re-route your plans as a professional, or or was this kind of always in the cards where you're like, oh, I see an opportunity here and I want to seize it? Like, is this what you had envisioned for where you're at at the moment?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I didn't think I'd ever be racing an electric bike at Supercross. Um just kind of taking it like slow to like slowly and like seeing what the future could be, and then you know, okay, maybe I'll go that way. So basically started out. I I started racing locally when I was younger, um, slowly got into Lorettas. Uh I raced at Lorettas for 10 years. So, but when I was younger, I never did good at the nationals. Like my dad would drive me down to Florida and I would just get like 20th place just as a young little kid. I just didn't do do too good, too much pressure. Yeah. And then so we quit doing that. I just did local races back home. And then uh when it would get cold in the winter, we'd go race arena cross, uh maybe two of them a year. Uh but it wasn't until um 2018 I really started doing arena cross like in the pro class, and um but before that, it's kind of funny. I actually raced Lorettas when I was 13 years old on a 450. Oh no way.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah, and you I think you're a strong 13-year-old, man. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00

I think you had to be um 14 or I think you had to be 14 or 15 to even race the class. So just you know, you could get away with it back then.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But uh so yeah, I uh pretty much just uh raced local races and then got into Rena Cross about 2018 when I graduated high school.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then because my dad uh I I grew up in a neighborhood. My dad drove a semi-truck, so he'd be gone for weeks at a time, and and then uh finally he was back home once I graduated a lot, and then started doing Rena Cross a lot and just progressed from there. Like I did arena crossing, oh, this is where I this is where I belong. And uh just come from my BMX background and all that, it was just like it fit my riding style. Um ended up breaking my back, should have won the championship for the GT Arena Cross series, ended up breaking my back at a like a smaller rinky dink arena cross because there was not uh the series race that weekend, and um so that kind of put me back, came back, got a championship, and then got like I think five in a row after that during that. Started doing some supercross come COVID time, and uh I think my third supercross, I finally made the main event in the 250 class. Yeah, and then um then the year after that got on a team, which was Tyloop Honda. Yep. First super cross in Atlanta, uh hurt my uh twisted my knee in the whoops, so I was out, and then stayed with them, got went back the next year, and that was the first time I've ever done a full season. I think it was 2023, and uh made it through a full season, got my best finish in Supercross. Uh it was a uh 10th place in Detroit. And then after that, basically just I wanted to do better, but I I it was about halfway through the series, and I was like, you know what, I just want to get through the rest of the series. So my results kind of faded, but stayed healthy, got through the series, and then uh, but through that, all that I had always done arena cross. So whether that was the I did some AMA ones they back in I'd say four years ago, they were like California to North Carolina to and it just it wasn't doable for me living in Missouri. And then um, so I would do the Midwest series, which was GT Arena Cross, because they were they were close and they just it's good money for I mean drive three hours is the farthest one. It's good money. So basically just like dialed in my skills with that, and then then I saw the start cut was coming out, and I was like, oh that that's so cool. I'm like, but I had no when the start came out, I I did not think that it would ever make it to the racing side of it. I was like, oh, that'll just be a fun free ride bike, yeah. And uh but yeah, then basically decided to move to California, and that's how that's how it all ended up started. But like I kind of heard about start possibly racing, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna pursue that. So I think I heard that right before I moved to California, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna go out there, try and ride this thing, meet some people, and see, see if we what we can do. So and then um yeah, basically just I didn't I didn't think it would it would ever work out like that, but it's just in like your career, you could kind of see where things might be going, and then you can just be like, okay, I'm gonna kind of like go towards that direction. And then sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. So, but it ended up working out for me. It's kind of where I I saw it coming. I was like, I want to be that guy. I want to get in on it early.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So that come, let's say the future when they do allow uh electric bikes to race the gas bikes, I'm gonna be prepared and I I'll be able to win against the gas bikes and not not lose.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's getting a ton of traction right now. I've obviously Stark had a lot of growing pains to get it into professional racing, but now that I feel like guys like you are are proving that they're capable and they can kind of race each other and coexist, and it seems like we're kind of rounding the corner now where there's gonna be more opportunities and more potential to see electric bikes either racing their own class or racing gas bikes. And um yeah, I think you're on the right side of, as Eric said, the right side of history with it where you know things are gonna change quick, and um it's cool that you're seeing that vision and adapting to it because um it can be yeah, easy to just kind of get like pass an opportunity like that that could be a huge uh huge opportunity for your career.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's uh and it's just the USA, really. That's like the only I go to all these other countries and you can race the Stark. Like I've raced in Italy, I've raced uh like an Italy motocross race, um, race in France, and then obviously the World Supercross series. So um it's just the USA, it's uh the AMA is just like the manufacturers have a say in that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So they don't want the electric bike to come in. Where like I kind of a uh theory, like I I feel like if you just allow Star to race, then they'll just be the only electric bike company in the class racing, whereas the the gas bikes aren't gonna like have to turn to an elect be an electric bike that they have to make. So yeah, um, I think if you just allow the Stark to race, then nothing's gonna go, not everything's gonna go to electric, there'll just be one electric bike uh manufacturer.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. But no, that's a good theory. And like, you know, I I think with the AMA, especially too, I I still feel like there's a little bit of um, I want to say, like, open wounds from the four-stroke, like switching from two stroke to four-stroke, because I feel like now they're like, ooh, 450 might have been too much for that class. And so they're like, I I feel like they're cautious to not make, I don't want to call it a mistake, but like not make the same mistake twice. And so they're like ultra, ultra conservative on letting the bikes in. And then obviously the other OEMs not having electric bikes is probably the main reason, you know. But yeah, it does seem like that's hopefully changing soon. And um, you know, a guy like you, you know, racing both bikes, are you like like how would you compare the differences between the the two bikes, both from like a technical standpoint and just like how it's perceived with the other racers that you're on the track with?

SPEAKER_00

Uh so I'll say it's easy to go from a gas bike to the start. It's a little harder to go from the start to the back to the gas bike. Sure. Um, just because you have the clutch and shifting and and all that. I raced the start for like eight months, came back here, and I did an arena cross, and I gotta shift. I totally forgot to shift.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, but uh stuck in second gear here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. And um so like it's got his its advantages and disadvantages. Instant power, which I like a lot, especially for super cross, where you just you want that instant power out of a turn due to the rhythm section and all that. Um but this disadvantage is uh like I race gas bikes, so lappers and trying to pass someone, they they cannot hear you.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So um actually in France, we do have our bikes do make sound through the phone. Oh, yeah. What kind of sound does it make? It's I say it sounds like a dying whale. Oh no. It just doesn't even sound like a dirt bike.

SPEAKER_04

Oh man. It's got to be kind of distracting.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So at the practice track, we never we never did it. And I went to the first French race and I went to take off to go to qualifying. I'm like, what the heck? These things are making a weird noise. He goes, Oh yeah, we never showed you the sound. I was like, what? So I go out and practice, and I just have this sound coming from the phone because it just plays through the phone.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, I like super distracting. Finally got used to it. But um it's actually funny. They went up to sound tests and they have to do sound tests. Yeah. And it didn't pass the sound test the first time. It was too loud. Yeah, they just took the phone out and turned them turned the sound on. That's so funny. I was like, what's the point in the sound test for that?

SPEAKER_04

That's so funny. Yeah, you're like wearing earplugs to drown out the noise of your electric bike now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, because it's right in your face. So it's yeah, so it's but um yeah, so people can't hear you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Kind of can be an advantage because they don't know if you're gonna cut up the inside. You can scare them, or you can like cut down in a turn and blow by them. So but like I don't know what it's it's hard to say. Like I I I ride both. I'm gonna I would choose electric over the gas bike. Like I just did a race this in uh Reno this weekend.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And uh, I was able to race the gas bike. So or I'm sorry, I was able to race a Stark against the gas bikes, and I chose the Stark, end up winning both nights. So and it's it's it's just a little bit of that advantage that it gives you off the start. Um it was it was kind of a crazy race. It was through a it was like through a stadium and then through the cattle gates. So you're literally like cutting the cattle gates, like trying to make up time.

SPEAKER_03

Damn.

SPEAKER_00

So that's that's where that bike is amazing because you just instant power and all that. But um all I know is everybody who's races gas bikes wishes they could also race a start. So there's some two dudes there, a couple dudes that had raced a start the year before, weren't able to race it this year because they were contracted with a team and they they wish that they were able to race it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So where do you do you feel like they're like at that level that you're racing in that environment where whether it's like supercross or even arena cross, where do you feel like the disadvantages are on the electric bike?

SPEAKER_00

Uh definitely the whoops.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um we at World Supercross, I struggled in the whoops. Um the couple of the main events, I would lose a whole bike length every lap.

SPEAKER_03

No way.

SPEAKER_00

So I like off the start, I was behind Anstey and I was staying with him, and he just won bike length when we hit the whoops. No way. One bike length when he hit the whoops. And then and then third place would catch me. Yeah. He'd catch me, and I just basically faded back to forth just because I could not hit the whoops. And they were they're pretty big and they were dry. So just with that electric power, it just it's just spinning the wheel the whole time. Yeah, you have no throttle clutch to uh manage that. Yeah. So it's it's really scary because you have to, if you want to hit a set of whoops good, you have to come in more committed than you do with a gas bike and hope you don't miss one. Because, like I try to tell myself, you're gonna slow down at the end, so just hit it hard coming in. Yeah, and sometimes it works out, and then other times you get a little sketchy, but that the the benefit is the stark is easier to maneuver, so you can kind of get it back in line and you don't have to pull in the clutch. Because most of the time when you're hitting the whoops, if you miss one and you pull the clutch in, that's when you end up wide and up. The stark, you can at least like drop into one and jump out. Or you it's a little better to get out of a sticky situation, but um that's that's probably the biggest disadvantage. Um, I mean, we we have a good advantage off the start. I mean a whole-shotted uh ANSI on a star Yamaha. So yeah. Um but and because when they when those gas bikes shift, I'm just keep I just keep going. So that little bit that they have to do, it slows them down. And um, but also one thing is depending on the track, I think Sweden was like a super lo-me motocross style track. Yeah, they end up just taking all the supercross features out because it was so soft. Um our bikes would die quicker. So about under 80%, you can feel a power loss and um ride supercross, you don't want to feel a power loss at all. So we were able to switch through maps, which is I guess another advantage, but um depending on the track, if the bike sucks the battery, then you do lose a little bit of power. So that's kind of a disadvantage.

SPEAKER_04

So would you like in that scenario, would you like say you're under 80%, would you click up to like a higher horsepower mode and try to compensate for it that way? And would that actually work?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. So the it's just where the throttle hits, how quickly it hits. Yeah, so like there we have three. I like I like number two, like three at a hundred percent. If you're hitting a turn and you kind of use that like half throttle, it just wants to go. Yeah, it's kind of hard to manage. So you have to kind of wait till the battery dies a little bit to switch to three to get that initial power back. Um, it's just it's what we have to do for supercross because you can't come around halfway through the race and go to hit a triple in and you don't have power. So right. Um, but just just power maps, and I mean that's what the new Starks, you can you can adjust all that. So that's that's another big update that that helps out us a ton and can um help like any any any rider have a better riding style because they can adjust where the throttle hits and all that.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah, I wanted to ask you about that too, especially because you race world supercross in the you know 250 class basically. And do you know what you guys are doing horsepower-wise to make that competitive in the 250 class? Because you can't just race it, you you can't race whatever power mode that you want, right? To race 250s.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so we're at 48. 48. That's for French super, that's for the FIM.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Um, so but like you could take 48 with the new mapping, yeah. You can put all the power at the beginning, sure, and it could be as fast off the line as let's say a stock stark and 60. Yeah, that you didn't even mess with the mapping. So I did a few French races on a dirt start, and I whole-shotted all the 450s on my 250 power with the Stark. Just I mean, good gate, but that that power hits it, ours hits so quickly, yeah. And uh, because yeah, I think in supercross, you're not really wide open, it's more just avatar, triple, triple, and um, but yeah, yeah, R48's pretty fast just because our our tuning that we can do, you know, and then it's it's no different than Max Sancy. He can they can go into his bike and change all those settings, also, right?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, they've got crazy ECU options on those bikes too, and those, yeah, you know, or no slouch for like local races when you're racing 450.

SPEAKER_01

Do you turn it up? And how much do you turn it up?

SPEAKER_00

Uh so the this weekend I raced 60 horsepower. They wanted that was the only way that they would let me race the uh the electric bike was if I uh put it in 60 for the race mode, which technically it was it was on the sign-up sheet, it's open pro means open, yeah, even whatever. But I was like, whatever. I I I want to at least race it. So I'm not gonna make them happy. And this was kind of a this was a race that doesn't have a whole lot of rules. They they're not AMA sanctioned and all that, so yeah. Um, but even 60 was too much, it was kind of a dry, fair, you know, kind of style track. But one thing that would like was really big of an advantage for me was um through the stadium, it was kind of arena cross-ish. I'd be in 60 horsepower, and there was a real long straightaway into the stadium, kind of like Vegas. Um, so I'd be 60 there, hit the finish line, and right before I go into the cattle gate things, I'd switch down to 50. Okay. Yeah. And that was a huge advantage. I I would make up time back in the cattle thing just simply by being able to lower my power.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

And and that's why I tell a lot of people like the older guys, the vet riders, I'll be like, hey, like what how many laps in do you get tired? I'm like, uh, lap four. I'm like, this bike, you could start like you're riding a 450. Yeah, and you get tired, switch it down to it's like it's a 250. Like, I never thought about that. And then, like, sure enough, they end up getting a start. Yeah, I sold them like that. Yeah, but it that's that's the advantages to to all electric bikes. I mean, all electric bikes have different modes and and all that, so it just caters to a lot more people, and I think that's why you see a lot more people getting into dirt bikes simply because of e-bikes.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's so true, man. It's like in a lot of ways, less is more, you know, it's like you're getting more traction, you're not having to hold on as hard. And like you keep talking about like the the start just accelerates so quick, anyways. Like, even a lower horsepower mode on those bikes, if you're comparing it to a gas bike, it's not really the same, but it's cool because you could you can lower that thing down and make it basically a beginner bike, but then yeah, you crank the power up, and it's like I mean, it can be too much even for a guy like you, as you're explaining, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Um in Italy, I raced, they had um 3Z and that Zeragoza for the 450 class. Yeah, they had their their tune. So basically, like my mapping on their 60 horsepower, and I had a 51, two, three, or sprocket because that's what we run for the 250 class. And uh that it was the fastest dirt bike I've ever rode in my life. It was it was I had to turn, I ended up having to lower it to 55 because it was just insanely fast. And this was a really fast track in Italy, yeah. And uh, but yeah, craziest dirt bike ever rode, craziest fast dirt bike I ever rode was that was that power. But yeah, um, yeah, like you said, I can I can put my girlfriend on on 10 or 10 horsepower, she can ride around. Yeah, like it's it's insane. But uh yeah, I think uh that's that's like the like you got your buddy at the at your house, you're like, hey, ride my 450, and like no, that's way too fast. It's like so it it just uh I think it's helping the sport really. And I'm sure you've guys seen it. How many new kids are in the e-bikes? I'll I'll ask kids at the skate park to pull up on a uh seron. I'd like, oh, you ride Moto? No, yeah, it's so weird to me. I know.

SPEAKER_04

I I think it's great, man. I I think there at the moment there's a lot of you know conflict with those kids riding in the streets, obviously. Like we're all off-road riders, but like I think it's amazing how many kids are getting on two wheels because of the small serons. And I hope that it bleeds over. I mean, it has to bleed over into riding tracks and riding off-road. And um, I hope that it's like the new resurgence of just getting people on dirt bikes. And if we have to do it by way of like being young and starting on a serron, then it's like I think it's a great way to get into the sport. And um, I'm with you, man. I I think it's gonna grow.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I've I see a lot of it out here in California. There was one somebody at the track at a 250, and like, yeah, I had a I had an Ultra B and then I decided to get a get a dirt bike or like a gas bike. I'm like, that's weird, it's usually the other way around. Yeah, so it's it's cool to see that. And then even just for example, they had the uh the electric race that they do here in California, like Kanye West kid is there racing. Yeah, I saw that. It's bringing so many types of like different people in their sport, and that it only helps. So it's it's good.

SPEAKER_04

Have you done any of those races? Those like um I think I forget what they call it, like the EMR emotion.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I was going to. Um I didn't really know how with Stark because like they don't want Stark won't support um the riders riding in anything that's only electric.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Which I could probably go there and race it on my own personal Stark, and they wouldn't have a problem. But I also wanted to go and race the Sauron class and then the mini-bike class, and I was having problems with my Siuron, but uh kept cutting out on me. So I haven't made it to one. I've been trying to figure out what's wrong with it. Yeah. But um, I really I would like to.

SPEAKER_04

Nice, man. Yeah, it seems like a cool movement. I haven't been out to one either, but it it seems like it's getting good traction. And I yeah, I like that idea, like what you're saying. It's like you're hopefully bringing people off of, you know, potentially not that they're gonna not rip wheelies in the street. I mean, it's part of the part of the you know, the culture, but it's cool to see uh so many kids, you know, racing in the dirt with these bikes too. And I I hope that that grows for those guys.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the uh I've been going to Paris Raceway every Friday night, yeah. Pretty much they do like a minion night, and there's all kinds of kids there that are from LA and they've they never rode again uh track, so this is their first time. So yeah, that's even growing. And you got all the parents coming saying, yeah, they're they're cutting down on the uh on e-bikes in LA on the streets. So like you're gonna have a lot more people coming to the track. So yeah, man, it's good.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I've always felt like I haven't really seen this yet, but I've always had this idea in my head that it'd be so cool to see a municipality, like just say, you know, somewhere in LA, like make a track in like downtown, somewhere where kids can go, they don't have to drive all the way to Paris or Paula or whatever, and just like give them an opportunity to ride like near their house. And I I think that that would help too. Just it's like kind of the skate park movement, you know. It's like if we could build some tracks um closer to the cities and stuff, I think it it would be a cool thing to get these kids riding more moto style um terrain.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that that uh I know V Lo solutions, I'm pretty sure they build all the pump tracks, yeah, like the BMX one. They need to start building the e-bike ones for real specific, and that would that literally will help.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, if they have a cooler um say concrete pump track than to go ride the BMX one, though they're gonna be at the cooler e-bike one. Yeah. So I mean that could be that could be something in the future that could help keep the bikes off the street.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I think that'd be the move, man, because it's like you think about just dirt, like you just have to maintain that so much. People are rolling lips and stuff. But if you had something that is like asphalt where it could just stay the way that it is, I mean, clearly if you go down on that, it's gonna suck, but uh you know, at least it'll it'll stay built. So yeah, I don't know. I think there's a ton of potential there, especially where you're at in California.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's there's kids at the high school right by my house, like there's just sarans locked up to the wall, like lines of them. And you see them every day, there's just groups of them riding. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01

That's cool. Yeah, so uh going back to you know, racing world supercross and things like that. Was there any opportunities to run a different like power mode like heading into the whoops? Or do you ever yeah you mentioned you were changing it in certain parts of the track?

SPEAKER_00

Uh so we round one, we did have like a whoop map, and it was really good, and but it overshot the power limit. Oh um, we didn't, I don't think we had a power regulator on our bikes till round three.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

It's just like and it was a learning year for everyone for the whole manufacturer, like the whole everyone in the start, the racing side of it and the development side. So come round three, I never had any um overpower issues. Uh, but I did at round one, which uh I was super pull second behind Ansti had a good gate pick right next to the box. That's like where you want, because you when you come out, you have no one to your right. So that I end up getting that taken away because Enzo Lopes, I got docked back to forth. He took my gate pick. So that kind of sucked. But there's uh we were testing with those, just we were going over the power limits, and we like so we do two free practices and one qualifying. So every round in the two free practices, we were testing maps, like just testing them, and uh we we end up finding some really good ones, and we also came to California, did some testing, so that but after round one, so that was good. So we have a really good all-around map, and um, like I said, I switched back and forth. So if I wanted to it, I could have a this year. I'm gonna probably try and have them make me a map for the whole track and then a map specifically for the whoops that I can click it going into them and click it coming out, basically like like shifting. So I'm gonna try and figure out a map perfect for that. So and that'll be crazy. I I hope I can figure that out because that'll be a big advantage.

SPEAKER_04

Do you feel like I know that it's not an option right now, you know, from the factory. I'm sure they could figure it out very easily, but like, do you feel like if you had a electronic clutch to kill a little bit of power and modulate, would it help in the whoops, or is it still just the nature of the electric bike?

SPEAKER_00

Uh I think it's just the nature of the way the wheel spins and all that. It's because on a gas bike, you're not really you're not holding the clutch through the whoops, you kind of just have it there just in case. Yeah. So I think I unless let's say, let's say the Stark had a clutch, it would get me into the whoops good. Like I could get some drive, but it would just it would lose its speed pretty quickly, I think. Yeah, it's like a gas bike, you kind of clutch into it, and then the bike just stays on top of them. Um, whereas a Stark, I think I just gotta think you're always just gonna have to come in so fast, yeah, man, that's and and hope.

SPEAKER_04

That's ballsy, man. I mean, it's like it's ballsy just to hit whoops in general, but yeah, to have to hit them faster, it's like, man, that that takes some nuts.

SPEAKER_00

Now, if the whoops are jumpable, that's where the advantage comes in. Okay, it's insane. So that that one week I was riding the handbrake, um, the whoops at the practice track were hammered, so we were jumping through them. And that that was so good with the with the handbrake to be able to get the bike into those transitions. So that's a the big advantage because like that Jorge Zaragoza, he's really good at jumping through the whoops because he has the handbrake and he's been on the handbrake and he doesn't like hitting whoops that much. He likes jumping through them, but he he's got it figured out with the handbrake. So that's an advantage. But that the world supercross, they they built the whoops really big. So it was it was we had you had to hit them the whole time, and uh, so it got a little got a little scary a lot of them because it in those countries the dirt's not the best. And they're those uh workers were we raced every single weekend for five weeks. I think we had one weekend in between, but they would they didn't have like supercross over here, they have a build crew and like a tear-down crew. So the build as soon as the build crew builds, they go to the next city and they start building, and the tarot crew tears it down. The World Supercross series, the same people tearing down the track were the same people building the one the the next weekend in a different country on different time zones, and so they'd like to fly there. There was times that we would go up for qualifying and they're finishing the track, and they didn't even have time to water it. Oh, it was yeah, there was I think it was South Africa. We went out for practice and they they didn't put an ounce of water on it because they didn't have time. It was so dry, slick, it wasn't even funny, it was so dusty. But like tracks like that, that's where the Stark kind of sucks just because it's so dry. Yeah, but I think if you if you race over here in the USA where they where they like get the dirt really nice and good, that that bike would rip over here.

SPEAKER_04

Are you running different spec tires that than you would on say a 250 F, uh just to like get better traction, or is it just kind of the same?

SPEAKER_00

I think we just run Michelin. Yeah, um, I don't think we have a we don't have a special tire um for that. They were talking about trying to get one, just a spec tire. Um yeah, but yeah, I don't I don't I think we're just running regular Michelin tires.

SPEAKER_04

Right on. And I was curious, too. What do you know what regen settings that you run for supercross?

SPEAKER_00

I run 25. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

So man, dude, that's exactly where I'm at. Really? I I love that it's just like two two-stroke feel, like you know, tons of like not much engine braking. Yeah, 25.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't like I don't like a whole lot. Um 25 is pretty much it, whatever horsepower I ride, I I pretty much ride 25. I don't change the regen. I just put on 25 and that's it. The only time I change is for whips, just I go lower, but yeah, um, yeah, 25 seems seems the closest to me as a gas bike, sort of.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

A little bit less, maybe.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it was crazy. Like I was saying, we had Cooper Abbott on and he's racing hardenuros on it, and he has his regen for his hardenuro map, he has it set to 55 regen. And we we actually tried it last weekend on one of our bikes, and it's like, man, when you roll off the throttle, it's like it pitches you over the front of the bike. Yeah, amazing how strong it gets.

SPEAKER_00

I think that Jorge Zergoza runs like 55. He runs a lot. Whoa. Yeah, which is he's got the handbrake, so I think that's why you still get at the whoops. That's wild, but uh yeah, it's crazy if you run more more than 25 is crazy to me.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I I'm curious, man, like at World Supercross and so and like I know you did the um what was it like the Arena Cross Clash was did you do that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that was that was the first little bit of racing that we did over here in the US. Yeah um we would do we had our own classes and then they would do intermission, they would the top three from the gas bike and the top three from the electric bike, and uh they go head to head. And I think the first round Bogle end up winning, so that was good for the for the Stark. Yeah, but and then after that, it's it's like I think it was four laps, so it's just you're just going so hard right off the line. And uh I didn't do so good in them. I think I got maybe a second one time behind behind Freezy. But um, so that was the first our first taste of racing with the with the gas bikes, and especially with Freezy Politelli, and then the Ryan Brees. It was it was gnarly, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Those are some heavy hitter arena cross guys right there. Yeah. What I my my question about like that round and then uh world super cross is like how are the gas racers perceiving the the Stark being there? Is it is there any friction there, or like are they do they seem pretty cool with it, or like what's the reaction for the other racers?

SPEAKER_00

They all seem cool with it, but I'm sure they're I'm sure they're not. Yeah. I've uh I've had a lot a lot of dudes joking, like, dude, I had no idea you're behind me, or like they cut down in a turn, I almost hit them, and yeah, like I it's just basically it's it's one of those things. I'm I'm I just have to be like, yeah, no, you're good. I know what I'm on, yeah, and I know you can't hear me. So um, but they they all like I said, most of them wish they were on it though. Yeah, like I've had a lot of them be like, dude, I wish I could ride that bike. That thing looks so good. Yeah, it is, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Do you feel like it because I I we know it's coming, right? Like, and I love watching gas bikes race. I know you you love it too. Like, do you feel like do you want to see gas and electric just continue to go together, or do you feel like they're gonna separate at some point? Like, what what would your your best case scenario be for a race, or what would you want to see?

SPEAKER_00

Uh for more full-size racing, um, I think together. Uh, I don't want it to go just electric. I mean, I've done just electric and arena cross, and the fans that don't like it, you can tell they're we're out there and it's funny. They're playing music and we can hear it while we're racing. Yeah, and uh, but I would I'd much rather it be just the Starks racing gas bikes instead of a full star class. Um I just think that that's the best way to do it because you still you make everyone happy. A couple dudes that want to race the Stark can race it, and then the people who uh are racing the gas bike don't feel like they're uh gonna get taken over, I guess.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, for sure. I mean it's like I I don't know. I love hearing the four strokes, I love smelling the race gas, you know. It's like it that's part of the whole experience when you go to a super cross or a national or something, and um, you know, like after riding so much electric here for our business, like I I definitely yearn to like get on a two-stroke or a four-stroke a lot in my free time because I'm like, oh, I just like kind of miss the the vibrations and the the technique and the shifting and the the smells and everything and and the sounds. And so I like I'm not fully on board with it getting you know all going electric either, despite us being in this industry. And so I don't know what the the recipe is, but um yeah, I mean I think if like you could add a cool noise, not like a a dying whale noise to your bike and maybe make it sound like a 125 two-stroke or something, and then you know, have those race uh the gas bikes if the if both bikes can stay competitive, if like there's certain uh benefits and and negatives, and I I think that'd be a cool thing to see in the future. And I I can't see people getting too upset about that as long as there's still gas bikes to race.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think it's just the noise. I think if they could figure out the noise, yeah, make it loud and have like a speaker on the bike instead of through the phone, right? Yeah, I think that would solve a lot of problems. Yeah, it would solve a lot of problems for me racing also, like just simply the other riders knowing I'm there. Right. Um, so I think that's next. And then um then it'll open up the open up the for any for any racing.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I've done it at a much lower, much, much lower level than you, like just amateur racing, but it's like man, coming up behind people, like I'm yelling, like they still like wait a second, oh shit, there's a bike behind me. I didn't know that there was like anybody behind me, and you're like, ah yeah, get out of the way. But or using the horn, or using the horn, like super obnoxiously. Yeah, I've done that in the past too, and then everybody's pissed at you. And I'm like, I'm just trying to let you know, I don't want you to turn into me, you know? But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Do you notice a difference in arm pump uh raising your Stark versus say your Yamaha? He's a pro, man.

SPEAKER_04

He doesn't get arm pump. Oh, yeah, no, no.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so yeah, I I don't deal with it a lot. Okay. Um, but so I have a buddy who just started riding big bikes three years ago, and uh he has he's had pit bikes and then he got a Suron, and he finally got a uh 250 F, but he gets arm pump in about two laps.

SPEAKER_03

Damn, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

He can ride my Stark and do like six laps until he gets arm pumped just simply because he's holding on so tight. Yeah, but it's he gets about two times as much as many laps until he gets arm pumped simply because he does not have a clutch.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So that's that's a big advantage, also with uh that and that's what I tell a lot of people too. I'm like, do you get arm pump? Yeah, I'm like, you need a stark with with a with no clutch. Yep, no handbrake, just get the foot brake, you have nothing to hold on up there. You just and you're just you can just focus on your riding. You know, you you can hear if it's a drive slick track, like I've I pretty much fine-tune uh the sound of the tire hitting the dirt, especially for supercross. Like I can I know where the traction is just simply by the sound. So there's there's stuff like that you can fine-tune in your riding, especially the bike being skinnier, you don't have to grip it as much. Like it's just just there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Do you run uh grip tape down by the pegs on your Stark?

SPEAKER_00

Um, yeah, I run on the frame and on the side plate.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

unknown

Nice.

SPEAKER_04

So what's the the plan for uh the rest of this year, maybe into 2027, if you figure that out? Like what are you what are you gonna be racing and uh where can people watch what you're up to this year?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I'm going, I'm going back to race the French Supercross series in the 250 class, and then after that, I'll be doing the 250 class with World Supercross. So those are that's my plan for the rest of the year. Um besides that, I'm just gonna free ride between those and uh and then come next year. I'm I hope to do the same thing and still be with Stark. Yeah, maybe maybe even racing over here. So yeah, hopefully they've been trying to get to race over here for the last two years, and they said, ah, maybe next year, and then maybe next year. So yeah, I hope, I hope it is next year, and I'm hope that I'm on the forefront of that and can uh can do good and and show what the the bike's capable of over here in the USA.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, man. I mean, that's a the great thing about World Supercross being open to it. It's like there it's you've got competitive racing over there, and like we're getting to watch more more racing in general, and it's just cool that you guys are able to have a showing there. So I'm sure it'll bleed over. It's like you know, just takes a little bit of time, and I think people are just gonna have to figure out what the best plan is moving forward. But um what do you did? Or is that still kind of to be determined?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, they they have it released. Um, I think the first one's uh August 8th in Calgary, Canada.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, nice.

SPEAKER_00

And then um then we do, I think we go back, we go back to South Africa, we go back to the Gold Coast, and then uh there's a couple other ones I kind of forget, but uh Argentina, we go there, and there's one other one. I'm forgetting, or maybe I'm not, but um, it's just close to the same schedule we did last year, which was really cool. Yeah, I mean the the fans loved the electric bike. Um I I tell everyone I get more hate in the USA on an electric bike than I do. And you know, I like I race in France and I'm a foreigner and I'm on an electric bike.

SPEAKER_04

That's like the ultimate like you're the villain coming in, you should be the villain coming in, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and and no, they love it. Like they but they've also seen the gas uh start racing over there for a few years now, so yeah, they're used to it. Even the even the riders, they they don't even hate it over there. So um, but it's uh we went to all those countries and it was it was so cool. It's just cool to spread supercross um in those countries. You know, there's people in South Africa that have never even seen a dirt bike and they're at a supercross. So yeah, it's crazy. But um, so yeah, I I really like doing that. Just obviously you get to travel the world, which is awesome. Yeah, man. But uh just just spreading the the name of Supercross and also the starch. So um getting it, getting it out there, and uh it's only gonna help us help the riders make more money. So it's uh you know, we this sport doesn't the riders don't make any running past fifth place in the like pro level, it doesn't make a whole lot of money. So yeah, um hopefully we the sport can build and and hopefully electric helps that. I I think it will. It brings I know it's brought a lot more fans into the sport, and uh so uh hopefully it goes gets bigger.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, man. And with guys like you, you know, pushing it forward, like that's what it's gonna take. You know, you're you're open-minded to it and seeing the benefits. And I think the more people that see guys like you doing well on it and accepting it and being able to, you know, still ride your your 250F or whatever else you're racing, it I think it helps open the door. And so um, yeah, man, excited for you and and good luck when that comes out. I think you know, maybe once you get into some rounds, we'd love to have you back on if you have some time and just kind of hear how things are going. But um, yeah, man, super excited for you and thanks for taking the time to talk to us today.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, just uh I'm I'm free whenever. So we could uh I'll do a few rounds and I'll give you guys a call.

SPEAKER_01

Awesome, Michael. Awesome. Hey, for people that want to follow you, follow along on social media, what's your like Instagram and other spots they can find?

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah, uh pretty much Instagram is where I post most of my stuff. It's just uh you can look up my name, Michael Hicks, or it's uh M-H-I-C-K 3Zs underscore 460. So that's where I post most of my stuff. Uh but trying to get more on YouTube, it's just it's just hard too when you're freaking riding, traveling. It it's tough. But uh mainly Instagram is where I post everything.

SPEAKER_04

Awesome, man. Well, we'll stay tuned and yeah, good luck and thanks again. Thank you. All right, see you, Michael. See ya. If you made it this far and you want more, and if this was useful, please like and subscribe.