The eMoto Show
The ECR eMoto Show is a podcast dedicated to electric dirt bikes and the eMoto industry.
The eMoto Show
Everything You Need to Know About US Hard Enduro Electric Racing (2026)
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In episode 7 of the eMoto Show, we sit down with Matt Musgrove from US Hard Enduro to break down everything you need to know about the 2026 eMoto classes.
Electric dirt bikes are officially part of a full national championship in US Hard Enduro, and we cover how it all works—from class structure and bike eligibility to race formats, battery strategy, and what to expect if you’re lining up for your first event.
We dive into the two eMoto classes (Sportsman and Pro), how riders qualify, which bikes are currently approved, and what it actually takes to finish a hard enduro on an electric bike. Matt also explains how USHE is handling battery swaps, course design, and AMA requirements as the sport continues to evolve.
Beyond the rules, this conversation gets into why hard enduro is one of the best applications for electric dirt bikes, how OEMs are using these races as a proving ground, and where the future of eMoto racing is headed.
If you’ve been thinking about racing, or just want to understand how electric bikes fit into off-road competition, this episode covers it all.
Welcome to the EMoto show. Today we are sitting down with Matt Musgrove, the director of the U.S. Hardenduro series, to learn more about the two new eMoto classes that you can race in 2022. All right, Matt. So yeah, Hardenduro, let's just start from the top, man. You got you're running the show here. And if people are not familiar with U.S. Hard and Duro, like let's give an overview of what is U.S. Hardenduro.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, US Hardenduro is an organization that manages three AMA championships. And we go run from coast to coast. We have the AMA East to West Regional Championships. And we are in our first year running the AMA National Off-Road Championship. So that's a huge development for us. Um we got started that at the end of 2021, and uh 2022 is our first full season, and it's just a very talented group of people that we work with, and we work with uh promoters around the country that putting on races and try to improve the sport any way we can and and build this community. So it's been a pretty wild ride. We're in our fifth season right now, and uh I can't, you know, thank enough to the people that help make this possible. It's not easy, but it's definitely been uh incredible to see things grow and see entries see entries pick up and do faces showing up to a line.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like we've noticed a popularity increase, I think, with US Hard and Dro just from like the outside looking in. Uh, if you were not seeing it before, like how would you describe uh any US Hard and Duro around? I know there's plenty of different locations and every race has different terrain, but like what what is a US Hardenduro for a rider that would be entering a race?
SPEAKER_02US Hardenduro would be man or woman versus mount. It's like a it's an experience over a race. We want people to go through what people go through in like a tough mutter or or one of those extreme running events or marathon events, and we want them to do that on their dirt bike. We want them to challenge themselves, challenge their abilities, help their friends and their their uh their buddies out there racing. And it's a it's a totally different experience. We're we're trying to offer more than just a race. We're trying to offer a the like a custom tailored trail riding experience. That's kind of what we what our promoters and our our our course design our course directors and designers do is they build these perfect courses of like this you get a venue, let's build the course for a great hardened road trail ride. And that's kind of what we're you know racing around. And it's very special to do that. And we're we're trying to be more than just a racer. We're trying to be like, this is this is more than that. It's a community, it's an experience, and you can't beat it. It's just like the best form of off-road discipline, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01And that's kind of why we're talking to you today. The fact that you are trying to be uh you know inclusive and really be a spot where a lot of people can come and participate. Obviously, hard enduro and a lot of enduro is dominated by two strokes, but now you've got uh four-stroke classes and e-modo, that's why we're talking to you today, is because you guys have expanded out and have done an awesome job to include some eMoto classes. So uh, you know, how did we get into the the e-moto rounds? And uh why are you doing e-moto classes at Hardenduro?
SPEAKER_02I have to give it all the to Sean and Sean Finley and Eric Bernard at TKO. They they really pioneered the the e-moto scene in hardener ro, uh at least in the US. And we're kind of just following their lead and and making it work for our championships. And so uh they they what was it 2022, 23, maybe they started the championship? 2022, yeah. Yeah, I think it was 2022 because Spencer Wilton raced, I think, maybe that year. Yep. And so um that was uh a big development because they, you know, uh in 2022, it's not like it is now where bikes are being homologated and being accepted in an AMA, and like it was a little bit more cowboy a few years ago, and uh, but it was exciting, and so we saw that, and we are trying to apply uh that into a championship form with two different classes. So we have a emoto sportsman class, which will race like B or C class courses, and then we have a Imoto Pro class, which is designated for the elite level rider that wants to race on a pro course, probably a uh a gas bike pro guy or gal that is going to electric. And so uh, for example, Cooper Abbott, who is a very, very talented top, top five, top ten rider in Harden Girl, wrote a Stark Barga at the last round at Page, Arizona, and uh we made it to the final race, did really awesome on it and all smiles and uh it was trippy. I was filming on the side of the cliff when he was on it, and you can hear his foot peg. Something you just never hear foot peg dragging against a rock because uh gas bike is so loud, but you could hear you know just the little noises. Um, but it's been really cool to see the development. New uh OEMs are getting involved, new riders are being signed to chase the series, and so um we're at the ground level still, you know. Shout out to TKO for making this all, you know, it's for starting this whole trend, I think, in this sport, but we're excited to have a national championship to offer and two regional championships to offer for the for the Imoto guys and gals.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's been great, man. I mean, like I I've said this for a while. I I, you know, Eric and I did a bit of work together to get that first one off the ground. And um, you know, uh hats off to Eric. You know, he really did all the heavy lifting with it, but his vision, Eric is just the guy who is like, hey, this would be a good application for these bikes. And I couldn't agree more for Hardenduro. You know, obviously, electric bikes just have the limitation of battery and the way that your rounds are set up. It it's like you can be super competitive, you can race the same course as pro guys or just you know other amateurs and not be at a disadvantage because of the battery range. And like the same can't be said for so many other disciplines in um in motorcycling. And so um, yeah, it's great to see you guys being inclusive to uh Electric for the Hardenduro rounds because uh I think it's like the best application for electric for sure.
SPEAKER_02It totally is, and uh, I think there's uh a lot to be said with the advantages electric brings to the hardened row type of riding. Uh when you're out in the backcountry and you you're escaping kind of the city or just skipping maybe the main trails and you're kind of out in the mountains, um, you know, you're either limited by fuel or battery, but if you're in some cool zones and it's cool to have a silent bike, you know, it's cool to talk to your buddy, it's cool to be a little more stealth through the woods. And I think it if hardener and uh the emoto, like you said, immeshes well, you know, with the sealed a lot of the bikes are sealed, you know, if you go through a creek crossing and that that helps, you know. So there's there's things that uh we love aspects of electric. Uh, and I think we're seeing more guys choose electric for this type of recreation for hardener riding. Um, going fast around trails and through the woods is is you could pick any bike and have fun on it. But I think there's an advantage to electric uh in hardened row style riding that is uh gonna be growing over time.
SPEAKER_01Definitely. Now, what rounds I know like there is to be honest, like I the big thing I want to cover here is like all the details for US Hardenduro. So if somebody's watching this and they're on the fence or interested in racing, that we can maybe tick off a bunch of boxes just to make sure people have the full big picture and can uh you know be a part of it. But what what rounds are you able to race electric in for US Hard and Duro in 2026?
SPEAKER_02So Electric Sport E Moto Sportsman and EMoto Pro are championship rounds. So every single race will have those classes available. Um if they don't fill up, they don't fill up. But we've seen quite a few guys sign up for them. And uh, I think it's just gonna once we go to the East Coast in a month for Battle of the Goats, I think we're gonna see even more sign up for him. And so it's a it's a national championship. So this is a pretty heavy thing. We're gonna see uh Max Bapral, you know, jumping on, I think at Moab. I don't know if I'll sharing info too early or not, but that's kind of what Bonell is slated for getting him to chase the remainder of the championship. And uh Coop Rabbit is teasing maybe racing Moab again. So um I think there's some cool developments with the the series offering this as a championship class because TKO that was like a grand championship uh electric type of thing, which was one race, which was awesome, and it got things off the ground, it brought the OEMs in and a lot of interest uh for right racers and teams. This is now like an established championship that is crossing the country and allowing people to go after a title that they could bring home to their OEM and the team uh with a number A number one fight, which is pretty significant.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. And so the you know, you mentioned the two different classes, so you're gonna be able to race either sportsman or pro at every single round. And you you mentioned so sportsmen will likely race either B or C, and I'm sure that that's just dependent upon what the course is like.
SPEAKER_02Uh for most likely C course, yeah. Uh most likely C course based on what our C courses look like because they're like a harder hair scramble. So um I there is a big jump, but we just don't see the numbers to add a B or an A emoto right now. We're kind of just seeing how this all pans out. Um, it also if like the majority of the EMoto sportsmen want to go to uh a race or go to a B course, we will allow them, I'm sure, because they race the same days. Not all of our courses are split that way. So like Tennessee or Tennessee Knockout or a grinding stone this past weekend, we have it be a knockout format, so everybody races the same course. Uh it just get the courses change. But um you know, but at Battle of the Goats in in a month, we're gonna be splitting the courses up into four four levels, pro, a, b, c, and that will kind of offer different levels of uh difficulty. And um because before it was kind of split two ways, pro and a or b and c and it was kind of hard to split the difference. So I think this is a little bit more work for the promoters and the course uh directors and designers, but it's it's gonna offer a better experience and tailor to the skill level a lot better, and it'd be a be a safer experience as well. So um right now we're kind of at the BC level for sportsmen and pro for sure on the um eMoto Pro class.
SPEAKER_01Now for emoto pro, who would qualify for pro? I know you and I talked about that a little bit beforehand on all this stuff, but um not everyone could just be like, hey, I'm a pro and go out and race the pro course because it's it's pretty legit stuff. So how are you discerning who can race pro and who can race sportsmen?
SPEAKER_02They have to email us if they want to be pro. Um, we're gonna have to see results, top consistent top three, top five finishes in the A class or pro class in other disciplines. Um, so it's not just like you want to go sign up pro because you're gonna be a liability and you're gonna be probably getting hurt or in the way because the pro courses now that they're split from the A are gonna be no joke. Um they're gonna be what they should be, and which is gonna be fun to see. But we don't need B A writer, you know, level writers on those courses. So they're gonna have to email us admin at US HardenGrowl if you're interested to uh request permission to be in the pro class. And we're doing that with the with the pro two-stroke, four-stroke, and pro women's classes as well.
SPEAKER_01Okay, great. And like back, uh, you know, staying on the topic of courses, course length and that type of thing. I know anybody who rides and races electric always has that in the back of their mind. Okay, like how long are these races? How much time do I have in between races to charge? Do I need spare batteries? What bike can I race? Uh, so you know, let's let's break down maybe some of the distances that people can expect and opportunities to recharge or swap batteries.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so the courses could vary from three to four miles at some of the short courses, uh, upwards of 12 to 13. Uh we've had courses longer, like in Hawaii, I believe it was 16, I think it was 19, 20 miles. Um, and they came back for a gas stop, and then there was a gas checkout there. So we uh have designated gas stops um at some races, and we have the designated pits, and that's where the battery swaps would be allowed. Um since it's still relatively new for the AMA, new for us, the battery swap process. We're trying to keep them in the designated spots um and and control that somewhat. It's just not possible across the board, but it's we're trying to just keep them where the fuels are getting the the fuels getting uh the fuel stops are. And so uh most of our courses are eight to twelve mile miles, I would say. And that doesn't really say much because it could take four hours to get around that one loop. So um depending on the difficulty and the type of course it's on. So it's it's kind of a tough thing. That's where there would be a gas stop. If it if it's anticipated to be a really tough course or take people longer, they would add a gas stop midway um where people could run a battery before the race, too.
SPEAKER_01And then if you're on, say, a bike like the Stark where it's not as easy to swap, or um, you know, there aren't really a ton of options for secondary batteries, are though I mean those bikes can go a further distance, but is that being factored into for some of the uh some of the rounds just to, you know, some of these bikes just don't have a swappable option. So would we let people know beforehand that like, hey, this is gonna be a kind of a longer course or um anything like that for those guys?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the the kind of the beauty of U.S. Hardenduro is that we don't have a single format, we don't have a single style of course. Um we've been working really hard to standardize things, and every time we try to standardize things, we take it back another step or two to give some freedom of the of the identity of the races and the culture, and you know, keeping things you know, a bit harder on tradition is you know, run a different format every race. And so with that, it's hard for us to create standards. We're working on trying to keep things a little more simple across the board, but um each race brings its own identity and they bring their own, you know, concerns and and access to from for spectators or pits. Uh we are uh yeah, we we we do will warn people if it's gonna be a concern. Um we do allow racers if they break something to go back to it's kind of the honor system, they go back to their pit if they need to and come back to where they you know started off of, so um, or where they left course, and so that's a possibility if they need to go back. But most courses will allow them to do at least a lap, and it's not usually a concern. Hawaii, the gas stop was a little bit far out, and I think that would have been an issue for a start, but um, you know, I don't see that happening with any of the rounds this year.
SPEAKER_01It didn't look like anybody would have made it there, anyways. That Hawaii round that thing looks so tough, man.
SPEAKER_02That was pretty insane.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that was like true hard hardener, it looked like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was. Yeah. Um, do the riders pre-ride the course the day before, or how do they inspect it? And is that like the morning or the day before?
SPEAKER_02That's another thing. We allow coursewalking at some events, and some events we don't allow coursewalking. So it's kind of announced by us whether we allow course walking or not. Some promoters enjoy it because they might have more high exposure spots. They want the racers to kind of go through it to, you know, from our safety standpoint. And some promoters would rather not to keep the element of surprise for the racers, which we've been gravitating towards no pre-walking, um, just to keep, you know, less people on the trail allow us to kind of finish up our duties on course the day before and just keep the element of surprise. We don't allow any pre-riding, uh, at least for a few weeks before the event. And so that's um, but the course can't be marked. So the the courses usually get marked, you know, one to two weeks beforehand, fully marked. And so um, yeah, no, no uh pre-riding. At times there might be a qualifier, and that qualifier might that qualifier course might run on the main course, and so guys would ride the same course twice, potentially in a weekend, and uh get to know it a little bit better. So just kind of depends.
SPEAKER_01And one big topic that you and I were working on together earlier was the homologation of bikes and and figuring out like what bikes can actually race these rounds. There is a little bit of a change with with AMA. And so uh where are we at now with what bikes can race and what classifies as a uh homologated bike that can compete at a U.S. Hardenduro at the moment?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we updated our rule book before Page Arizona. Uh right now we have the e-motobikes eligible to race are the KTM Freeride, Starch Bark, Bonell 805, and 902, the Suron Ultra B, the Toro. Is that how you pronounce it? Toro.
SPEAKER_01Toro Toro Toro C-O-R-R-O-T. Oh, uh yeah. Gosh, I don't even know that bike. I know they're kids' bikes, but yeah, it's like a Spanish bike. Torot, maybe?
SPEAKER_02Oh, Tor, yeah, so maybe, yep, yep. Maybe it's a trials thing. Oh, sure. That yeah. Um in the Zero XE. Okay. Well so that's what we're the AMA has allowed us to run. We haven't really got much uh or many requests from other bikes yet. So I'm sure we will as we get closer to TKO, because TKO brings a lot of racers in from the emoto community. But I think that covers a good amount. I think the Bonells are going to be popular in a year or two, and and the Starks, obviously, and the Ultra Bees are probably the two most popular right now.
SPEAKER_01Definitely. Yeah, and if you're a manufacturer that's watching this right now, get on it if you want your bike to be raced. Because uh, and if you're a rider that doesn't have one of the bikes that you just mentioned, we're you know, we're having this conversation pre-MOAB right now, but uh yeah, you don't want to be rolling up to the race thinking that you can go and your bike is not eligible. So uh exactly.
SPEAKER_02And I think the AMA they're not charging for homologation. They they just I think there's certain requirements that the um the manufacturer has to meet, and they have to be you know in production, you know, companies like Dust Moto, they have a great bike and they're good at they're developing it. And you know, one of our hardener erasers is actually one of the lead engineers uh on their team, but they just don't have many bikes in production, it seems like. So they can't be homologated at this point. Uh so yeah, just reach out to us if they have any questions or or Tucker, and we can um definitely put you guys in the right direction. Cool. Sounds good. I did want to say Zero was at the Page Arizona, the Grinding Stone Hard, and they were doing demo rides and they had a racer out, and they are, I think, making some pieces of content on that. So I'm excited to see what comes of that. They had a photographer, well-known photographer racing one of them. And uh yeah, that's a pretty exciting involvement um to have Zero at one of the races.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they had big presence uh at TKO last year, too. Our our guy Dustin raced the XE also, and um, yeah, great bike. And yeah, it's good to have like I feel like the bikes that you listed are are definitely ones that are probably the most common. To be out on the track right now. Um, one I didn't hear you mention that I I also thought was homologated. Maybe you can give me a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Aren't the electric motion bikes homologated as well? Or am I off the mark on that?
SPEAKER_02Let me check because those are very popular, but those are considered trials bikes. I don't know uh because we don't want a lot. We can have a trials bike compete for like non-points.
SPEAKER_00Oh, for non-points, interesting.
SPEAKER_02But uh yeah, okay, trials bikes there, yeah, only in the youth super mini in the school boy classes. So they're only allowed for the youth classes. Okay, the the electric motion. So let me check in with uh the AMA because I they're very popular and they're they've been you know, many have been sold out here in the US. So um yeah, those are probably allowed.
SPEAKER_01Okay, and I'm I'm gonna say this too. If you're listening to this, like we're there's obviously more things to be ironed out and you know, uh ECR is going to be partnered up with US Hardened Euro this year, and so we'll have not only a lot of content to like clarify some of these things as they evolve, but like we'll also have an article that can be updated on our website with some of this like hard detail stuff that people can check back in on. So if you're watching this on YouTube or something, and we'll drop a link where you can keep going back to this article at least, and we'll make sure we're updating the current information as if you know a new manufacturer comes in and brings a new bike or something like that, we can add all that stuff in so that people are getting up-to-date info, and I'm sure you'll do the same too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I'm I'm excited to work with you guys. Sweet. So if somebody listening wants to race, what do they need to get started?
SPEAKER_02So go to ushardenduro.com and click on the registration, and there will be some uh items there. You have to apply for a series number, pay $20 for the series fee, apply for a series number. The scoring team will get back to you with your number, and then uh, well, before that, you have to be an AMA member. So just the annual AMA membership. Apply for your series number, and then it's very easy. Hit the button on our website for Mototally uh registration and pre-enter for the race after you put in your series number and your AMA number. So uh we try to make it fairly smooth. Um just a heads up TKO will have a different registration. I know you guys have a lot of TKO listeners. Uh that should be opening up soon, but they will have a different registration, but we will have uh instructions on our website for that. Um but yeah, we're we're trying to improve our processes. We have some cool scoring updates and registration updates in this upcoming year that we're excited about, but um fairly simple, you know. Uh people do have sticker shock, I will admit for a hard and draw the prices are usually higher than you know a traditional hair scramble or motocross race. And I would say that's due to the uh involvement of the course building. And I think that this the course building takes a lot more uh involvement, time, resources, and experience. You know, truthfully, you just can't be some random guy building these courses. You have to be experienced to build those. And these courses usually do last longer. They're they're uh you know, three and a half to five hours. And so you we put those factors into play and the entries, because the sport is a bit more you know specialized and and not as mainstream, you know, with the average off-road rider, number and number of entries are a bit down. So that tends to, you know, raise the prices a little bit. So we try to keep our prices as low as possible. Some of them will go over $300. Um, you know, the East Coast races are gonna be, you know, in the 150 to 200 range for the most part. Um, we really encourage pre-entry because prices are usually discounted at pre-entry. Um you know, on site, we're gonna start raising prices more just so we get people through the system online faster. So uh that helps when you get on site uh, you know, to check in as a racer. It's a more seamless process to be pre-entered rather than signing up on site.
SPEAKER_01And another thing to point out too is you know, a lot of the US Hardenduro rounds, correct me if I'm wrong, like you get a lot more racing than just one race. Like you're you know, a lot of these are are multi-day type events where you're you're not just signing up to do a one and done day in, day out type thing. So um you know, it can be what like two to three days of racing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02At most, yeah, like the upcoming race in a few weeks at Moab will have uh qualifier day, which most people will most amateurs, I think, will get their fix on qualifier day. And then the main race will be a harder and longer course, and uh that will definitely get their money's worth. And that race does cost a little bit more on the higher end, but the Joe and Mesa do such an incredible job up there. It's a really unique venue. You're in Moab, Utah. It's uh, you know, you get your money's worth. They they give you a lot of race time on that course, on those courses. And so uh plus if you're not racing, it's an awesome spectator sport. Like this is one of the best spectator experiences because they're moving slow and you get to see things done that you you know you can only wish you could do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, man. It's uh it's great for that too. And you can uh you can heckle your your buddy as he's struggling up something.
SPEAKER_02Especially for electric guys, you you can heck you can get right to their ear if you hear all of it, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Uh so if you're an amateur rider and this is one of your first events you're competing in, what are the minimum bike requirements and uh like safety gear requirements for that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so for safety gear, standard helmet, gloves, pants, long sleeve jersey, uh obviously boots, moto boots. Um, and those are all listed in uh our supplemental rulebook and the AMA off-road rulebook. Uh for the emoto, I have it pulled up here. The emoto bike specs, we have our um both classes, minimum 21-inch front, 18-inch rear, and a 53 minimum or 53-inch minimum wheelbase. So that 53-inch minimum wheelbase does take out some of the smaller serons and the more common telarias and those um bikes we see, you know, that are pretty popular, the high volume sale bikes, and it pushes them out and brings in the more bigger, you know, higher wattage bikes.
SPEAKER_01And that's a good point, too. For I guess I'm trying to think back to your list of what's eligible right now, but uh, for instance, a Suron Ultra B, you would need to upgrade a Ultra B to meet that 21-inch requirement because that bike comes with a 19-inch stock. And I mean, if you're owning that bike and racing hard and duro, you're I mean, I can't see anybody not already doing that, but it's a good thing to know for that bike specifically. Zero XE already comes with a 21-inch, but yeah, that's a a good note there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh, for sure. And I Bonell reached the requirements for their uh for both the 805 and 902, so that's exciting. Um and yeah, we're if it if anyone has any questions about technical specs, uh reach out to us and we'll probably just ask Tucker.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that sounds good. And we'll just update it in this article I keep talking about too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um as far as you know, if you're just an amateur rider and you're showing up, do you recommend, you know, running gummy tires, different things like that, like smaller mods that you would do to the bike to make it work out on a course like that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, if this is your first time, let's say you want to sign up for Moab or Battle of the Goats or TKO in the e-moto sportsman class, and you have a Saron Ultra Beat. Uh like Tucker said, just you know, 21-inch front, 18-inch rear, we would recommend that. Obviously, the 21-inch front is the most important. Um but you can get by with a 90 19-inch rear, but you know, most gummy tires come in 18-inch rear. We would recommend uh a gummy tire with a moose setup. Um sometimes guys run tubeless setups, but running a tube setup in this sport is kind of frowned upon. It doesn't it doesn't last long, a lot of pinch flats will happen out there, even tubeless setups go flat often, not often, but we've seen it happen at uh at hardeneros. And so uh the moose setup is the most popular, and there's several you know, there's a lot of options there. But um running a nice gummy and getting used to that gummy, we would definitely recommend your first time riding a gummy not be at a race because uh especially on electric bike, that thing will hook up and you know be right in front of you real quick. So uh we recommend you put a ride in on a few rides in on a gummy tire, get used to it on the on different types of terrain. Um, you know, the suspension is usually softer for hardener o. So running a softer suspension and uh having protection parts. That's a really important one. I know some more and more aftermarket brands are offering good skid plates and and uh rotor guards and things of those nature for the emoto brands. It's not as popular as the gas bike brands, but there are more protection parts uh coming online. But we would definitely recommend protecting the bike a bit so you're not left stranded out there or you don't damage anything significant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good points. That'll really help you get the most of your weekend and probably save your bike. Yeah, absolutely. No, for sure.
SPEAKER_01It's battle out there, you know. You're just you're slamming that bike into the rocks and throwing it down stuff. It's brutal. Just watch some of the page Arizona highlights. Yeah, it's what happens to your bike.
SPEAKER_02A lot of people are turned off by hardened row because they don't want to destroy their bike, and you can't argue that, but I think the people who race hardener look at a dirt bike as a tool and as a way of getting around rather than um, you know, it's obviously a lot of expense goes into it, resources go into it, time and and money. And so uh we don't blame people that for that, but people love that love hardener, love taking their dirt bikes up things, and that's priority over the the sake of the machine. Obviously, to finish a race, you have to keep the machine alive and keep it moving, but uh it some scratches, some dings, some dents here and there aren't really worth scoffing at.
SPEAKER_01Yep, absolutely. So just like thinking big picture, you know, I know we kind of scratch the surface on this, but why why offer an e-moto class at US Hard and Duro? And like where do you see the e-moto class going over the next few years? You know, you're you have a finger on the pulse of uh just racing dirt bikes in general, but for US Hardenduro, what are what are your your thoughts on the on including electric into the race series?
SPEAKER_02We're trying to be a progressive series in a in multiple ways. And the electric thing is here to stay. It's it's growing, they're selling tens of thousands of units at these manufacturers selling tens of thousands of units a year. And so we want to capitalize on that newer market. I we don't, you know, I think as a lot of emoto enthusiasts uh agree, emoto is not here to replace gas right now. Um, you know, maybe in decades to come, but right now we're at a point where it's opened a new market and new community of writers. And so we're trying to welcome that community into this style of writing and make sure that they're welcome. And that if they like more technical writing, this is the place they can compete at and have some fun. So um we're trying to just look forward into where trends are and also where the community in the market is. Um, obviously, like when you look at the dirt or the off-road space, you got electric is exploding and adventure is exploding. You know, I think off-road gas bikes in general are steadily okay, but uh the adventure and electric markets are just blowing up. And so we want to jump on the um jump on that growth and and take advantage of those racers wanting to find a place to race. And uh also like we want to uh push the limits of what can be done with these things. Like, I think we I think hardenrow can and will be the training grounds for future OEMs to see what their bikes are capable of. And they are it already is. I mean, you see KTM, their training grounds are Earthberg, and see how they've developed their bikes because of Eurosberg. And so I think that OEMs will realize that Hardendrow is the spot where or is the like the series, is this is the the discipline where they can find peak performance in the most extreme conditions and take their bikes through the harshest of uh race scenarios and and see how it does compared to other race series. And so we want to be that home for those OEMs and and uh you know show that we have their support as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'll say I like we ride electric dirt bikes all the time. We ride all types of dirt bikes, but either getting ready for TKO or racing TKO has always been the one application where I am finding the weak points of all these bikes. It's where it's like you you when you put it in that environment, it is just such a torture test on these machines. And uh yeah, it's it's cool. I mean, it's like it really shows where you need to make improvements and where some of the flaws might be, and it might not be something that applies to every type of riding when you're fixing that. But um, it's been kind of fascinating for me to just find these little things here and there that are only rearing its head because I'm getting ready for a hardened row and it's the bike is just being put to the absolute test on that stuff.
SPEAKER_02For sure. I mean, you got cooling issues, you got you know, strength issues, you got, you know, power issues, you all types of things that go into play. Um, you know, same stuff, I mean, just different with that the gas bikes struggle with, um, you know, and there's still no perfect system. So I'm excited because this is just the beginning of a very, I think, long future of electric being involved in this sport. And I hope that we are the hub of electric motor racing, off-road racing, um, in years to come. So uh if we want to be the proving grounds, we want to be the spot to be. Uh, and offering a national championship is a big first step for that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's amazing, man. I mean, I just like honestly just want to say thank you for doing that. And I I just think it's cool, not only from the electric perspective, but just you know, the event itself, U.S. Hardenuro, to be allowing all of these different types of racers and different riders on different bikes to be able to have a place to go race. So uh it's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_00Um, so as far as like rules clarity, uh, are there like unique rules for the e-moto setup and for that competition that a rider maybe wouldn't expect?
SPEAKER_02Right now we have in our supplementals, it's the the wheelbase and wheel rules. The AMA rulebook has some e-moto rules, e-bike rules, but they're not really up to date, as Tucker probably knows. Uh they're they're not like fully with where the standards are now, from what I've seen. But um if there's any particular questions that anybody has, like feel free to reach out and we can investigate further. Like like Tucker mentioned, this is all this is all new for us, this is new for the community. So uh the past three races have been actually pretty uh talling on our team, our management team, because we've experienced unique situations at the past three events that we have never experienced and that we have really taken a lot of resources for us to figure out. Um, not necessarily with emoto, but every race since the series and discipline is so new, every race we experience something kind of new that we have to kind of consider putting in the rule book or consider taking care of in the future. So, you know, our penalty structure is is kind of changing and and updating, and uh there's just quite a few things that we have to clarify in the future.
SPEAKER_01Right on. We'll we'll we'll help with that too, you know. Like like I keep saying, well, if things change or get updated, we'll try to update it on our end too. So everybody who has all the info. But yeah, man, super excited for 2026 and all the racing that you've got coming up. Uh also, we want to talk a little bit about hill climb stuff now, too. Getting off the hardenero, you're not only doing hard and duro stuff, but uh you've got some some big hill climb races coming up and some uh some electric classes in that too. So I want you to give us the the rundown on what you're doing there or motoclimb. Moto climb, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, motoclimb is a term I I coined uh about 11 years ago because you type in Google hill climbing or or social media and you'll get all types of things. You'll get Pike's Peak, you'll get ETVs, you'll get bicycle racing. And so I did a disservice to the guys who spent so much time investing in the sport. So we created Moto Climb, and it's come to a point now where you chat GPT motoclimb versus hill climbing and it kind of uh is true to what we pushed for. So that's a that's a tip of the hat for our persistence and our um of pushing that branding for the athletes. But yeah, that's kind of where we got started in 2015, uh putting on local local motorcycle hill climb races here in the San Francisco Bay Area at Carnegie, as Tucker's familiar with. And so uh we've been doing that. We have one in next weekend on the 10th and 11th that I'm currently prepping for, but uh done a lot of events there. But we started the Moto Climb Super Series, which is kind of a semi-national or like a regional championship that we uh pick three to five or three to five venues a year and run a uh an AMA feature championship series with. And this is actually uh uh where the electric started for myself of like being a big proponent of it. Um, I want to give a big shout out to one of my good friends, Josh Mazakis, and he works for Electro and Co. now. Um one of my favorite, yeah, one of my favorite people, super smart guy. He's just also the nicest human, very talented on the bike, no matter what or what you skateboard, BMX bike, you know, dirt bike, anything. So uh he's a he's an awesome, uh, awesome dude. And he pushed uh with my we kind of pushed with Ulta in 2017 and 2018. We've actually got Ulta to show up. Um, they brought a filmer, they gave us a loaner bike at the end of 2018. Uh, we got to have Josh race it and Austin Tyler race it. And uh we actually made it custom swing arm extensions for it. So, like we have I still have those Ulta swing arm extensions, and they're they're kind of a relic for me. I'm gonna hang them on the wall one day because it was that, and I still haven't ridden a Stark, which I kind of don't want to because I'm gonna buy one uh probably because they're I I can imagine they're so fun, but uh the Ulta to this day was still the most fun bike ever rode. Um I can only imagine the Stark is way better, and so with uh it started with that we allowed the electric and our rule book to compete against in the 450 class, which is was pretty bold move of us in 2018. That's a really bold move, yeah. It we were a non-AMA championship, and so when we became an AMA championship in 2022, um, and these things were all starting to come about. We uh the the the way our 450 class now runs, it's called Pro Stock. We got the rid of the swing arm extension, so kind of lower the barrier of entry, and we are allowing um at 70 horsepower max racers to qualify their two runs, and then they get put into a top 32 verticross bracket and compete against each other. And so it's really cool to see Stark versus you know a four fit, a built 450, and sometimes depending on the hill layout, depending on their run, depending on the rider, you know, it's not always a uh blowout, it's it's pretty evenly matched. It's it's amazing to see, you know, not having a clutch on the hill kind of as a disservice to the Stark, but off the line, they're so quick. And so um it's been really cool to be progressing initially with the electric uh versus gas, you know, starting back in 2018. And we're here today seeing it with a national off-road championship, the same thing. Um you know, being progressed being progressed. And so we're our race next uh weekend at Carnegie, the Golden State Nationals, is gonna be our double header weekend. And uh we're gonna have Cody Webb out, which is exciting. It's IRC Tower's hundredth year anniversary, so we're gonna have some extra celebrations there. And um yeah, we're expecting uh Logan Bede, one of our top writers, got a Stark. So he'll be competing on the Stark in the pro stock class, and we'll be seeing more and more of them because I think they like there's no maintenance and they're just so quick out of the box that um instead of dropping five, ten grand on a 450 engine, you could just buy one of those.
SPEAKER_01Are a lot of people running extended swing arms on those, or is it just stock like totally stock?
SPEAKER_02I'm kind of I've been pushing to uh kind of not have as many swing arm extensions in our series because um we want our swing arm extensions to be with the big bikes, like the the open bikes with the street biking gyms. Um the 450 extended classes that you know there's still some series that run those. Um they're kind of antiquated. The industry didn't receive it well. They don't want to touch a bike that they put millions into development with and throwing someone throws $300 sticks on the back. Yeah. So like they don't want to they don't want to throw contingency at that or anything. So we went to all stock wheelbase and starting fresh, trying to get contingency on in the industry on board so we can uh eventually find more support through them because we it's an awesome sport. I I put all my effort into hard and grow and motoclimb. The communities are very similar, man versus mountain type of mentality, uh, very spectator-friendly races, and there's plenty of room for scale. And so I I uh truly believe these two sports have what it takes to be, you know, the next big things. And I mean, obviously, hard and grow is the the big thing, uh worldwide, especially. It's uh you know the most popular off-road discipline probably in Europe. And so, but in the US, we're we're really motivated uh to get these two up. But for electric, it's been fun to to see Motocline jump into the fray. And um, it's been a controversial thing. I've been through a lot of rough waters of teams just like not happy that I've allowed the electrics to be involved, but then their kid will beat the electric bike on their 450 and they'll shut up. So it's yeah, it's been fun to see uh you know the back and forth.
SPEAKER_01It's tough pioneering some of this stuff, and it's like you know, you're you're trying to get people involved until it reaches a level where maybe they have their own class or something like that. But in the meantime, you know, I think it's an interesting experiment to put them up head to head and see how they do. And um, yeah, you're making me want to go enter one of those too. So I might have to hit you up on that too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, it's a blast. You uh you have to come out with Josh one of these days. He's uh he's always at our races, and um, I was waking swing arm extensions with him a few years back, and he's a great guy. Um, but it I did mention something that made I forgot to mention for the Hard and Grow series is for like the um pro or the emoto classes have to start separate rows based on AMA rules.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's and so great. I'm glad you brought that up because that was a question I forgot about it too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and so uh like the pro e-moto pro class, uh they have to start on a row behind in the first race of the weekend, which is could be the only race of the weekend or it could be the qualifier. Let's say that was a qualifier, they start on a row behind. The next race they can go wherever they qualified and mix in with the gas bikes. So for example, Eddie Carlson last year did his hot lap on the start, it was his individual start, and then he was on the probably first or second row, you know, for the next race, the next knockout race, and finished what sixth last year at TKL? Yeah, I think so. Incredible, yeah. Yeah, so um that is uh one stipulation with the AMA that we're having to do. The two stroke, four stroke pro classes start together um uh based on points, and so that's uh the emoto is still on a separate row, which you know, I think that'll change in the future.
SPEAKER_01And for sportsmen too, is it the same deal? Like if you're like how would you qualify and then be placed for sportsman class?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so the first race of the weekend they'll probably be towards the back, one of the last rows. And then uh we have a we have amateur women, the kids, the super mini class, the electric motor sportsman and in industry. Industry is the final class. And then um they would if there was a qual if that was a qualifier, they would then play start wherever they um qualified for the next race. Okay, you know, if they qualified 15th, they would be, you know, depending on how many in that row, they would be, you know, up towards front.
SPEAKER_01Okay, sweet. So same same deal with sportsmen too. It's just qualifying sounds important because I was actually gonna ask you, you know, some people have rolled in late and misqualifying, and you're just okay, you're at the back of the pack. But now if you're potentially already back there, you might want to really consider making sure that you're at the qualifying race as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and uh our qualifiers are time corrected, which is good, you know. So they're you know, you're not at a time disadvantage, you're at a disadvantage when it comes to the course uh and traffic, you know, obviously. So that that's a disadvantage, but from a time perspective, you should be, you know, kind of where you need to be.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00So uh pivoting back to Moto Climb, I just wanted to say I I love the fact that it's so spectator friendly. You can see the whole course, everything that goes on, and let's face it, it leads really well to like viral videos and like spectator videos and things like that because you can see so much of it. Um have you ever thought about combining the two and having a U.S. Hardenboro and a hill climb at the same venue, or would that be difficult? We actually did in 2022.
SPEAKER_02It was one of our favorite events we've ever been a part of the Bent Night Brawl and the South Hill showdown at the Billings Motorcycle Club in Montana. And that was our round two of our first year, and we ran this Hardenboro or we ran a moto climb on day one, and all the factory teams, all the you know, got to watch. It was super awesome. The hills right there. And then our we had a our qualifier for the hardenboro was part of the the motoclimb. So we had a stock, you know, hit we had a stock hill for the uh like a shootout for the um for the hardenboro guys, and that would pick their row position for Sunday's Harden Grow. And the Harden Row was epic. It was one of the most memorable hardeners we've had. Uh it started dumping rain uh halfway through the race and um out there with the Bentonite. It just if you're stuck out there in the rain, you're stuck. And so just enough guys came in to finish the race, and then it just it was a it was a definitely a battle. It was an incredible event. Um, and we're doing that a couple times this year, actually. So we have the Donner Hardenduro on June 12th and 13th is gonna be combined. Okay, so we're gonna have an uh original California Motor Climb series event on Friday all day, and then on Friday at the same time, I'm gonna have the Hardendoro crew running a BC race. So there's gonna be a BC race and a Donner at BC split race up there is gonna be so epic because we're gonna definitely put people in. Uh, you'll have half the field to compete against, which is nice because up there it's a little tight. But uh, in my opinion, it's one of the most epic venues we have just be based on the terrain and the landscape. But it's a struggle with 200 plus racers on, of course, at once. So we're gonna have the BC race while the motocline is going on, and then our Pro Hard and Roe qualifier is gonna be our pro stock class. So we're gonna have our motoclimb class, pro stock motoclimb class. So we're gonna have our hardener row guys competing against the the motocline guys up this gnarly ski ski lift run, and uh that'll set the qualifying row for Sundays or for Saturday's pro A race. Sweet. And that yeah, that'll be fun. And then uh we have another one, yeah, yeah, that'll be the main one this year, actually. So uh June 12th and 13th at Donna Hardgirl.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. And what if people are trying to tune in? I know a lot of it's just kind of you guys do actually do a great job, I gotta say, posting as the event's happening on your Instagram. But like if people want to tune in and and watch, what's the the best way to do it? It's I know it's you're not really like rigging cameras up all over the mountain, so it's a little tough, but it's a dream.
SPEAKER_02We we want to live stream, we're intending to live stream over time, but that's a just a uh we have to triple our media budget if that's the case. It's just not possible right now. So we try our best to have the boots on the ground posting consistently throughout the race. We try to get you know over a dozen posts out during the race and keeping people updated through stories and and uh and through reels, but um that's kind of where the best way. Uh we have Mototali is live scoring at the check at the finish line. So uh we don't have all the check, the checkpoints aren't live at the moment, but the finish line is live, so you can kind of see where the um races are coming through the pits are. So that's probably the the two, and if you're near a race, come out and watch. It'll be the most fun time for the spectator. Sweet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah, excited, man. I mean, I'm I'm glad to be uh glad that you're doing this and glad that we can scratch the surface a little bit. Hopefully, people watching can get like a little bit more information now. And if people have more questions, like you said, you know, either drop them in the comments here, hit you up, or we'll just both try to keep e-modo stuff uh live and relevant. And uh yeah, hopefully see you guys out at some of the hardenure races. But thanks for the time, Matt. I know we're gonna talk again throughout the the season, so um, yeah, appreciate the time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you guys. Appreciate you having me on and uh doing so much to support the the sport and the series, and we're excited to work together more this year. Um, you know, appreciate all the calls, you know, about questions we have regarding the electric side. And I appreciate you working with Eric and Sean in the very beginning of this to kind of get things sparked. And so um, yeah, we'll see where it all goes, but I'm excited for Moab. Hopefully, Max can show up on the bonell and we can, you know, see what happens there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I want to see another another pro guy in there. Uh Max. Yeah. That's fun to watch. It's gonna be great. Yeah. So I think I'll be out at Moab too. So I'll I'll see you there. And on not running ProCourse, you already scared me off of that. So I'll I'll stay where I belong. And yeah, man, good to chat, and uh yeah, we'll be seeing you in a couple weeks. All right, sounds good. Thank you, guys. All right, man. See you next. If you made it this far and you want more, and if this was useful, please like and subscribe.